Global Day of Jewish Learning

One of the statements I hear most often from Jewish young adults is О НАС the lack of obvious relevance that can be drawn into the modern world from lesser-known Jewish traditions and sources. I appreciate the idea that relevance can be derived from traditions by helping history of action and behaviour transcend memory. It would be most useful if ways could be found to convey the significant of each historical event by tying them in to life-moments as they happen rather than simply recycling them through a calendar year.

we should accept СОБЫТИЯ as they occur, not just the good ones.  we are a people with such a strong background that is chartered by the Holy One,Blessed be He. we have no dark periods, just adjustments along the way.

When approaching the festivals, one should adopt the attitude expressed in the Passover seder: think of the СОБЫТИЯ as happening to you as an individual.  
Then, review the history of the Jewish people in light of the СОБЫТИЯ associated with the festival.  Consider the СОБЫТИЯ in light of current СОБЫТИЯ, 

With respect to Tisha b’Av: because of its nature, it is inevitable to think of Jewish history in terms of ongoing tragedies.  Of course, we should learn from these tragedies so as to try to avoid future such СОБЫТИЯ.   However, if that is all we do then that is a mistake.  

At the end of the day or at the end of any service we should also look at Jewish history to demonstrate how the Jewish people coped, recovered and went on and continue to go on to achieve greatness as individuals and as people in every era and, unlike other civilizations, continue to exist and make positive contributions to the world.  In other words we should also learn that there is hope – HATIKVAH,

If all we do is to focus on trials and tribulations, the question can be asked:  ЗАЧЕМ be a Jew and suffer such ignominies?   

The answer lies in learning from the past and seeing Jewish strengths and the importance of persevering while retaining personal dignity without having to surrender to evil.  It is a matter of personal an national pride and the retention of one’s personal dignity.  Jews should learn from Tisha b’Av the lesson of survival with the need for education, perseverance and hope.
Sheldon Gottlieb

We need to remember that for so many other periods in our history we have also had to cope with sadness and destruction—- the Warsaw and Lodz ghettos-,the killing camps at Treblinka and Majdanek,and the slaughters at Babi Yar and Vilno.My generation cannot forgive or forget.

i wonder how rambam would answer this question-in a positive way or negative?

We should ask ЗАЧЕМ. ЗАЧЕМ is there not a greater sence of urgency to rebuild the Temple? Instead of sadness there should be a sence of lets get this done. What has happened to the Law of G-D? Do we not believe we should still follow what He says? КТО has changed , Us or G-D?
 The festivals are supposed to be celebrations of what G-D has brought us through. To remind us, of His faithfulness to us. Not to focus on poor us, but rather what a great and mighty G-D we serve. We are truly a stiffed neck and rebellious people. May G-D have mercy on us, and restore a new heart and a right spirit in us.

ЗАЧЕМ does G-D call us to celebrate and remember the tragedies of the Jewish people? I for one happened to be a Gentile КТО owe my faith to the Jewish faith. I remember the tragedies of the Jewish people after G-D brought the Messiah to reach the Jews and the Gentiles with the suffering, death, then resurrection to ascension of the Messiah. I am saddened by so many Gentile followers of G-D with their belief in Jesus as the Jewish Messiah while finding reasons to eliminate the Jewish people. My G-D came through the Jewish people to reach me to worship the one true G-D. I see in the history of the Jewish nation that when tragedy struck the Jews, G-D’s promise was still true as they came and repented of their sins whether worshipping other gods or forgetting the people КТО need extra help to live on this earth whether they are poor, homeless, or disabled. What really saddens me О НАС the current nation of Israel, not that it exist because I praise G-D for it existence today, but the way the Jews treat the Jews КТО have embraced Yeshua as the Messiah of the One True G-D. For me, embracing Yeshua does not take away from being Jewish, but enhances the Jewishness by beginning to understand the TORAH with new eyes. G-D teach me to honor the Jewish celebrations whether of the tragedies or the celebrations of the deliverance of the Jewish people. I feel cheated when I participate in the Holy Eucharist because I know that the Holy Eucharist is only the conclusion of the Seder Meal remembering the deliverance of the Jews from Egyptian bondage. There are so many other Jewish celebrations that are connected to the teachings of the Messiah that I feel cheated when they are separated. For me, embracing Yeshua as the Messiah enhances our cultural differences, not eliminates them.

Sheldon,
  this is a most excellent comment. Well written and truly meaningful. I credit you with this.
thank you for sharing your thoughts on this…  You have a wisdom lacking in many..
   Sam

 Regarding rebuilding the Temple in Jerusalem, I have no need to rebuild it to worship G_d. Also , having a child I’m not inclined to start more wars in this world. I will put people over property. A good argument can be made that Judaism might not have survived to the present day had we not learned,  starting with the Babylonian exile, to define ourselves away from the Temple.More learned people than I have made this argument.

We should never forget, nor should we forgive murderers, but I think that there is a place for forgiveness. My own mother КТО lost her entire family in the Holocaust protected a small German boy in Berlin when they were standing in line for food and a man КТО had survived began to bully the boy. She gave the example of decency and of keeping faith with the very basic tenets of being Jewish by that act of courage to do the right thing. She was able to forgive individual Germans and the next generation. My father’s life was saved by a German sergeant КТО stopped a young soldier from killing him on a whim, and chided the soldier and told my father to get home fast.
    We need to have a capacity for forgiveness. Viktor Frankl, the Jewish Austrian doctor КТО survived Auschwitz and wrote Man’s Search for Meaning, hid a former member of the Nazi party in Austria after the war because he knew the man was not a hater, but had been swept up in the politics of the times, and in doing this he said (paraphrased, not quoted) “I can forgive from strength because I am a survivor, and I therefore I can stand on the high ground of ethics in this.”  There is a great strength in forgiveness, when forgiveness is possible. I remember also a woman meeting the man КТО killed her daughter and was condemned to be executed, and she accepted his regret and remorse at his horrid crime. He was executed for this, but she gave him the grace of forgiving him for the unforgiveable because he was truly remorseful.   this is amazing…and rare..
I don’t know if she could have forgiven him if he was not going to be executed..
     We must be on alert and to fight hatred and those КТО will murder innocents.. they are still out there in the world…  I hope that someone can stop Bashir Assad and give him the reward he deserves… being sent to hell. with speed.

If my ancestors were not expelled from Spain, my family would not be here in USA enjoying the fruits of their labors and hardships.  Tisha b’Ab, is a particularly ugly day in our history – but gaze upon your children then ask yourself “could it be possible that such beauty can emerge from the ashes of such ugliness?”….

Tisha b’Ab is a day understood by the Sages to mark the loss
of national political autonomy as a memorial to the past and a portent
of future deliverance…teshubah.  It is my family’s custom to observe the fast in accordance with Halachah…but re-investing ourselves in observance and rememberance.  For what purpose?…to understand where we came from so that we can fully enjoy the lives we live today and how crucial it is that we continue to thrive.

I appreciate what you have written Gary, but when there is an effort to make it seem as if one can be Jewish and accept Jesus, it is anathema to most Jews, and we consider those КТО embrace this to no longer be Jews by identity even if they are Jewish by birth.
     It is an act of faith by devout Jews that the Messiah has not come yet, and for secular Jews, the idea of the crucifixion of Jesus the Nazarene as a “sacrifice” for all people just does not sit well with us. I have close Christian friends and I respect their belief and their faith even if I don’t agree with these elements. I don’t try to dissuade them from their belief, and we share much in thought.
    Whether religious or secular, most Jews find those trying to recruit our young people into a Jews for Jesus kind of pretend that Judaism and the belief in Jesus the Rabbi as the Messiah as a valid form of Jewish practice, as offensive.
   We are happy when Christians find meaning in the elements of Judaism and the shared principles, and I have a deep respect for devout Christians КТО are compassionate and practice the tenets of the teachings of Jesus at core, but it is as if I tried to recruit young Christiansto Judaism and  to renounce Jesus as a false messiah. Of course, I would not do that.. That is what the Jews for Jesus movement is doing in essence.
  The nation of Israel should not sadden you..  It has a spirit of goodness at core that is rare.
and a tolerance for other faiths that is totally missing in the rest of the region, and is rare in the world at large..
   

Thank you. I needed to hear this perspective. Shalom.

Rabbi Steinsaltz commentaries is “Boot Camp” for the conscious!   Only ones apprehension of what is going on in this world today, the threats, peril, and dangers we face, can an unnderstanding for the observance of Tish’a B’Av and 17 of Tamuz have any benifit for Humanity to prevail.

Gary, perhaps knowing the criteria for the Messiah from a Jewish perspective will help clarify our position.I have given this to many Christians КТО seem to think Jews are just being stubborn in not accepting Jesus and did not know there are valid reasons for our beliefs.One of my oldest friends is an Evangelical Christian and has used this to explain our position to her community. She was also instrumental in encouraging me to find a temple community that was a good fit for our family …..and so we have !

The Jewish tradition of “The Messiah”
has its foundation in numerous biblical references, and understands
“The Messiah” to be a human being – without any overtone of deity or
divinity – КТО will bring О НАС certain changes in the world and
fulfill certain criteria before he can be acknowledged as “The Messiah”.

First of all, he must be Jewish – “…you may appoint a king
over you, КТОm the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your
brethren shall you set as king over you.” (Deuteronomy 17:15)

He must be a member of the tribe of Judah – “The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet…” (Genesis 49:10)

He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon,
his son – “And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall
sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, КТО shall
issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall
build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his
kingdom forever…” (2 Samuel 7:12 – 13)

He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel -”And
he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the
outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the
four corners of the earth.” (Isaiah 11:12)

He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem – “…and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them..” (Ezekiel 37:26 – 27)

He will rule at a time of world-wide peace – “…they shall beat
their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks;
nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn
war anymore.” (Micah 4:3)

He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d’s commandments -
“My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one
shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My
statutes.” (Ezekiel 37:24)

He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d
- “And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from
one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says
the L-rd” (Isaiah 66:23)

All of these criteria are best stated in the book of Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24-28:

And David my servant shall be king over them; and
they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments
and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land
that I have given to Yaakov my servant, in which your fathers have
dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their
children’s children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince
forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall
be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I
will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them
forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their
G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am
the L-rd КТО sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst
of them forevermore.

If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then
he cannot be “The Messiah.” A careful analysis of these criteria shows
us that to date, no one has fulfilled every condition.

It is a great blessing to have Rabbi Steinsaltz’s words available through this venue Thank you to all those involved in making it possible.

I add my thanks to Sam, as well as to the Rabbi for bringing such insight to the lessons of these days

In the same way that Rosh Hashannah and Yom Kippur teach me to focus of repairing personal relationships and feeling the brokenness of them, I think Tisha B’Av teaches us to focus on the unforeseen relationships and allow ourselves to be broken for one specific day. I dislike the general feeling of victimization I get from certain Jewish individuals, КТО seem to exacerbate this and make it a central part of their Jewish identity. It takes an honest look at the past and makes it an unhealthy obsession. Tisha B’Av however is a way to combat paranoid obsession and both recognize and compartmentalize all the frustration and sadness that comes from seemingly random bad luck. When you recognize the brokenness and feel it an let it go then we can move on and find all the happiness too. How wonderful that we are hear today to remember sadness in the past.

The more I learn, the more I am able to uncover the layers of meaning of the various holidays and make them more personal in additional to communal (communal meaning Am Yisrael). ЗАЧЕМ I should care becomes more and more relevant the more I understand.

Thank G_d for the Sams.  It’s nice to know I’m not the only Jew КТО gets a knot in my gut when confronted by Jews for Jesus. Thank you, Sam, for writing it so eloquently.

Agreed with all of the above. The problem is how in the modern world can it be proved that a Jew is a descendant of David, and of all the descendants of David the rightful heir?

I thank G-d for the day I confirmed my Jewish Roots! I am reminded and saddened of the days I listened to those heretics from Jews for Jesus and et al. 

As with all
Jewish holidays, for me, the central issues can always be turned a bit to
reflect a counterpart of Jewish history and/or of Jewish life. The good, the
bad, the pretty and the ugly. The portion of a tree we see above ground with
the blossoms, the fruit and the green leaves, and the portion below ground
where it’s dark, dank, mucky and things rot in order for the roots to draw up
and provide nutrients to the portion of the tree above ground, without which,
cannot exist.

To persist in
the pursuit and struggle to find holy meaning in the worst of conditions, and
hope in the face of disaster, is to me, the shining example of bitahon, and a deep knowing that it’s
all connected and that things will change. HaShem unfolds in mysterious ways
and we don’t get to know where or how every mitzvah
manifests as a blessing in the world, or how our suffering might prove to have
a deeper meaning than we initially understand.

In speaking
with prisoners, incarcerated for decades, I am stunned to my core to hear them
say, “thank G-d for my crime, thank G-d for my being caught and thank G-d
for my time here in prison”. They say that, but for, these СОБЫТИЯ in their
lives, they would not have become the people they are today and they feel
totally blessed. Baruch HaShem.

In the words
of a song written by my class from overlooked phrases in the siddur;

“Your
Names. There is no speech, there are no words. Your Names. My heart sings all
of your names. HaShem You are strength. The strength within my strength. Help
me to move beyond my fears, open my heart to Torah. Help me to move beyond my
fears, and I will sing my heart out. Your Names. There is no speech, there are
no words. My heart sings all of your names.”

There is a concept found in the Nefesh
Hachaim from Reb Chaim of Volozhin and in the Sefer Hachinuch:  “When a Jew focuses upon the facts that
nothing happens by accident and that everything is completely regulated by
Hashem, this realization will protect us from any danger or harm. Throughout
the difficult course of our history, it has been this trust in the Creator that
has preserved the Jew and given us the strength to persevere.

Tisha b’Av has become a kind of quiet reminder for me of the magnitude of the loss of the Jewish people, of my personal connection to our history and the loss. But is is also a challenge because we are still here, fully alive to live in G-ds kingdom and do his work and bring light and hope to all the inhabitants of our small planet.

History repeats itself. It is necessary to internalize past СОБЫТИЯ and relieve them not by
lamentations or rituals by celebrating the past, but by consciously and psycho-emotionally learning
and teaching our children new skills for breaking away from the role of  passive victims into active actors, making sure we do not allow the past to never again repeat itself in our lives as individuals as well as a nation. 

Morris Ishay

I

I wait patiently for the Temple to be built and our people КТО know the truth of the problems our ancestors experienced after that destruction so long ago through to our recent past.
Spiritually, emotionally, and psychologically we will remember these СОБЫТИЯ of the past. As long as we learn Torah and apply it to our lives we can assist I hope to prevent repeats of this today.
Perhaps looking further into the past can inform me, at least will be able to see all that happened to this day.

The sixth definition of remembrance in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary : a greeting or gift recalling or expressing friendship or affection.
Should one seek to understand the intrinsic spiritual essence of their suffering, one may find that these СОБЫТИЯ are the ‘pearls of the heart’ and look back on them with affection.
This requires an individual effort as sure as every individual is in possession of their own heart.
Thanks.

according to rambam, everything should be done in moderation-not at either extreme—–history does repeat itself but in different ways so we stay a certain course,accept what we are dealt (as so determined by the Holy One,Blessed be He) and only look forward (with proper guidance based on our learned Torah)

So true, that TIsha B’Av is “a key to, and definition of, all the troubles of the people of Israel.” With that in mind, perhaps we should not be mourning so much our numerous historical sufferings, but our inability to correct or repair the cause of them – our hatred and divisions among ourselves that continue to cause us problems and prevent us from establishing a lasting period of peace and deeper connection to God. 

The importance of the Temple transcends time. Are war, lies, and ignorance more tolerable because they have been occurring since the dawn of man? Looking at the people on a Jerusalem bus to the Western Wall, one can see on their faces they have a prayer in their hearts. A kiddush in a synagogue is to give thanks to G-d for the kindness he has given to us. As feelings of dedication and thanksgiving to the Creator of All spread and intensify we feel the loss of the Temple and a corresponding desire to see it rebuilt.

The importance of the Temple transcends time. Are war, lies, and ignorance more tolerable because they have been occurring since the dawn of man? Looking at the people on a Jerusalem bus to the Western Wall, one can see on their faces they have a prayer in their hearts. A kiddush in a synagogue is to give thanks to G-d for the kindness he has given to us. As feelings of dedication and thanksgiving to the Creator of All spread and intensify we feel the loss of the Temple and a corresponding desire to see it rebuilt.

Yes we should remember all our past history.  We can learn from past mistakes and injustices that have occured.  Celebrating feasts and other significant dates remind of us of КТО we are and what we should be doing to praise the Lord.

I believe that the historical СОБЫТИЯ are  a reflection of the journey the nation is subjected to follow, that   hinder a psycho-emotional pattern. Often we look at the event independently and not collectively, as a nation we have a collective consciousness and we ought to examine it from the broader perspective and seek a growth as peoplehood.

In the center of a pearl is a foreign object. It is placed there in an oyster sometimes by men КТО cultivate pearls, but this happens naturally of coarse. It is this agitating element that causes the pearl to grow. Without it there would be no pearl. There would be no beautiful transcendent significance.
For this reason, possibly one should befriend these festivals, although it does take a long time, and alot of work and seemingly blind faith to produce the pearls.

In truth, for some of you it may be easier to get an SUV through the eye of a needle, which is ЗАЧЕМ you need each other so much.

The Jews in Brooklyn, New York are wondering what has taken place in their community.
Proverbs 22:3 comes to mind.

The shrewd man perceives evil and hides,
while simpletons continue on and suffer the penalty.

          R. Steinsaltz attempts to personalize the commemorations of the Jewish
year, using the frame of reference of the Three Weeks leading up to Tisha B’Av
as a prototypical example. Although he states that the destruction of the
Temple becomes symbolic of subsequent persecutions, exiles and oppressions that
have beset the Jewish people over the course of its long history, I am
intrigued by the suggestion that this period also corresponds and lends insight
to the “internal СОБЫТИЯ in the life of each individual,” in effect a synergy
between the macro- and the microcosm. When the Talmud (Sanhedrin 37a)
analogizes every human being to separate entire universes, the same is true in
reverse, i.e., what occurs in the universe is played out in every individual’s
life as well. Due to human beings’ mortality, vulnerability, as well as having so
many personal aspirations inevitably resulting in frustration and failure over
the course of a lifetime,  each of us has
experienced  either first-hand or
indirectly, personal Tisha B’Av’s of our own. But there have been, Baruch
HaShem, personal Purim’s as well, times when we have celebrated both together
and individually our successes and deliverances from threat and evildoers. Being
sensitive to the highs and lows of the Jewish calendar, allows us to approach
more even-handedly our own difficult challenges as we journey through our lives,
realizing that just as the Jewish people recover and arise again and again to
reclaim their past glories and happiness, sometimes only a very short time
after experiencing great disappointment, pain and distress, the same could, and
hopefully will, be true for each of us.

Another dimension of R. Steinsaltz’ insight is
that it is specifically those difficult periods in our lives and people’s
histories that set off in stark and wondrous relief the good times filled with
not only with a cessation of pain and oppression, but also filled with happiness
and fulfillment.  When the Talmud (Ta’anit
30b) states that КТОmever properly mourns for Jerusalem’s destruction will
merit seeing its being rebuilt,  the two
emotional  states, the deep valley and the
high peak, are tied together, each sharpening and defining the other. May this
difficult period in our history, the Three Weeks, by means of our efforts to
engage in “Ahavat Chinam” (Love for its own sake), usher in a redemption not
only for our people as a КТОle, but for each individual in his or her own
respective right.

Gary,, you just don’t get it….   You have not really embraced Judaism, but have rather embraced Christianity that started out as a sect of Judaism. I respect that you hold the values of Judaism in high regard, but you don’t seem to understand that Jews do not accept Jesus the Nazarene as the Messiah.. It is as simple as that, and your trying to validate those Jews КТО have essentially left Judaism at core for Christianity simply doesn’t work with the majority of Jews. No one is doing anything to stop those Jews for their form of belief, but Judaism at large simply does not accept that these people are any longer Jews in practice or by identity except as Jews by birth.
    This is not new.   Some famous people Jews by ancestry became Christian for a variety of reasons for status in some cases, and as they married in Christian families, and in modern times some simply forsake Judaism for Christianity as acts of faith. A high ranking official of the Catholic Church was a survivor of the holocaust КТО embraced Catholicism.
but as I said, most Jews do not accept the idea of Jews for Judaism as a valid Jewish group, and the attempt to recruit young Jewish people into this group is anathema to most Jews.
     We don’t actively try to recruit Christians and this effort is not appreciated, and there are counter movements to stop this.
  We can share many principles and values, but for me the image of the crucifixion is a horror not a sign of hope,though I respect that for Christians it represents the ultimate sacrifice of G-d as if he did accept Isaac’s death as the ultimate act of faith by Abraham. Some Jews actually view this story as a distortion of reality as we think “how could G-d be so petty in exacting faith from Abraham to ask him to do such a horrid thing? And some Rabbi’s interpret the story as Abraham’s misguided fervour from the local practices of human sacrifice and that G-d refused this as an act of His Faith in Abraham.
  ЗАЧЕМ in the world would the omniscient, ominipresent, omnipotent deity need this insecure request of proof of faith from this frail flesh and blood Abraham. ?? 
     Gary, if you really want to be Jewish,, then learn Judaism…
Sam

Patrick,
 I saw your other comment О НАС an SUV through the eye of a needle..
I really don’t know what it is you are trying to say?

your translation of the proverbs is not accurate…
it is not О НАС perception…
It is О НАС avoiding danger.. Hiding from perception is avoidance, and that is not what the proverb is О НАС..

New International
Version (©1984)A prudent man
sees danger and takes refuge, but the simple keep going and suffer for it.
New Living Translation
(©2007)A prudent
person foresees danger and takes precautions. The simpleton goes blindly on and
suffers the consequences.
If you comment was in reference to the recent murder of a small boy, then it is misplaced.. Unfortunately, there are sick people in the world, and a lack of awareness of risk and sometimes there are errors, but this tragedy is first – a tragedy that begs compassion – demands compassion for the family..
     Not some kind of confusing judgement as put here..
If you have some other meaning to this.. do share it with us.. what you have written only confuses and confounds…
  

I can see ЗАЧЕМ many Jews may consider Jesus a disaster for the continuation of their faith. I have deep problems trying to convince my own church to see how the Messiah will come and fulfil the various Jewish commandments and prophecies.
 
Jesus says in Matthew 5:17 “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
 
I think the Old and New Testaments can seem contradictory, when the law calls for stoning in one instance (Deuteronomy 17:5) and to love your neighbour the next (Leviticus 19:18; Matthew 22:36-40)
 
But in Jesus we see the full kaleidoscope of operations. Matthew 5:17 requires that the Heavens and the earth have to pass before all the Jewish commandments will be fulfilled, so Jesus’ mission is still yet incomplete.
 
As for those that mourn over Zion, did not Jesus quote concerning himself that “This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.” (Luke 4:21)
 
Isaiah 61:1 ¶ The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
2  To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
3  To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

Dear confused and confounded,
Your inability to perceive evil will lead to your demise,
your self-logic will be your undoing.
If a Jew were wise he would be headed for Israel, though he would probably have to give up that SUV.
Sam, possibly your idea of trust and the Lords idea of trust are two different things.

Patrick,
your post was:
Patrick Sweeney (unregistered) wrote, in response to Sam (unregistered):
Dear confused and confounded,Your inability to perceive evil will lead to your demise,your self-logic will be your undoing.If a Jew were wise he would be headed for Israel, though he would probably have to give up that SUV.Sam, possibly your idea of trust and the Lords idea of trust are two different things.

Patrick, you reveal ignorance here in that you ignore facts and honest questions with unfounded characterizations. The only one here КТО is confused is you with your vague posts and lack of either logic or reasoning…
     I hardly think you are any authority on the “Lord’s” ideas nor of my idea of trust.
The forum here is intended for some useful discussion and sharing of thoughts, ideas and logic. You only show deceipt and innuendo here without anything that even vaguely resembles an “argument”.
  If you continue, it is likely you will be blocked from this discussion.
The only confusion and confounding expressions here are yours…
   Now if you start over and respond in a civilized and honest manner, you may gain some knowledge and insight here.. otherwise you are wasting everyone’s time and making threatening statements.
    The perception of evil takes a inner consruct of ethics and you seem to lack this at a very basic level of interaction with others. It won’t lead to your demise I am sure, but it certainly will not make you someone to be respected.
  

In so many ways, the Temple is the symbol of each Jew.  While we are often broken, our essence and holiness remain connected and КТОle.  Even though the building is broken of the Bayt HaMikdash its essence is КТОle, its spirit connected to the remnants of the building and the holiness of the place.

There are aspects of the pre-diaspora which make it difficult for me to mourn. I cannot see that time as the pure and perfect time for КТОse return we fervently  pray. A Temple designed with the designated place for all women outside, with the lepers, cannot have been pure and perfect for one half of the Jewish people, the half to which I belong. It is painful to be reluctant in acknowledging the anguish of a people destroyed, sold into slavery, cut off from their source of divine comfort. But, that is the legacy of a “men’s club” Judaism. Those КТОm you cast out will feel alienated.

I am sorry to insert into a serious spiritual discussion material which must seem to you trivial and profane. The difficulty is that the breach is real, and not a personal self-indulgence: Is not the cause for all human suffering the separation of God from Schinah, and have we not been told that it is our duty to reunite the feminine with the one КТО lost her?

There is a flaw in thinking to try to attach a modern context to an ancient time. Societies evolve – it was not so long ago that women could not vote in North America, but that does not take away from the tragedy of the first world war in which there were so many losses. The aspiration of Jews in those times of exile and the mourning for the destruction of the temple remain as symbols, and are not diminished by the fact of the different status of women in those times. One must also remember that the Talmud scholars were always looking for justice and for just interpretations.
   Trying to blend СОБЫТИЯ of thousands of years ago into today’s context is not the way to view this history. I agree with the need for Judaism to give women EQUAL rights in all aspects without the antiquated restrictions — if men can’t focus on prayer with women in the synagogue in the same space then put the men in the balcony or behind the screen on alternative Shabbat… In defense of the sages and the older times, women have been honoured by Judaic thought in much higher esteem than in most other societies, and the birth of a daughter should be no more or less a blessing than the birth of a son.. We look forward to change that is positive.
still, Phahn, you need to embrace the tradition in the aspirations it has provided as hope for centuries. If one reads Maimonides in times when the Jews in Spain were threatened with death or conversion to Islam and his thoughts on saving lives even while keeping true in heart and mind, and his view that nothing would destroy the essence of Judaism. So, remembrance of the bitterness of the destruction of the temples also has the hope for the restoration… but this does not mean or imply that we aspire to negative practices…  Tolerance yes.. respect.. but not acceptance of making women second class citizens, notwithstanding all the rationalized protests of differing roles. Equal but different yes, but not equal without the same abilities and opportunities such as women being counted in the minyan..

I am going to show you the same mercy and compassion that was shown to me when my son was taken and mutilated. Eye for an eye.

I am leaving this site and moving towards power, good luck Steinsaltz.

Patrick,
  I am very sorry for what happened to your son and the pain this has caused you.
Your posts here lacked clarity and were troubling which is ЗАЧЕМ I asked the original questions.
Your anger here is  misdirected as there is no one here that wishes you any harm.
   I have had my own losses as have others – some perhaps nearly as hard as yours, if not as hard.
I do hope you will find compassion and a positive way to ease your pain.
   There are many different views here … some are very religious and others not so, but I think everyone is seeking knowledge and understanding.
I wish you well….

While it is certain that the destruction of the Temple as the
ultimate spiritual essence of all Jewish suffering has meaning to most Jews, it
seems equally clear that WHAT EXACTLY it means depends upon our state of
consciousness IN the GENERATION appointed us. 
This word, generation, appears quite prominently in the Torah as a
critical vantage point from which the Creator views Israel and the nations. A
more careful examination of the different contexts in which it appears in the
holy text makes it clear that Hashem distinguishes every generation of Jews on
the basis of their character manifested in their willingness to act upon the
teaching and instructions that HE has bequeathed to the nation as an
inheritance along with the land.  This
holds true even for the act of MOURNING, especially NATIONAL mourning.  Mourning as an end in itself and viewed in
accordance with the general English definition of the word as to feel, express,
and SHOW the customary—read traditional—signs of grief is a very long way from
the intentions of the Creator as taught to us by every generation of Prophets
beginning with Moshe.  In the Torah
system, national mourning must become a spiritual catalyst—yes with tears,
uncertainty, and maybe without a clear view as to how to proceed—to examine
ourselves within the teshuva spiritual framework AND THEN to do what Hashem
empowers us to do in the context of our everyday lives and collectively as a
global Torah Jewish community to further the cause and purpose of Hashem’s will
for the nation of Israel. But what in the present is the
state of collective consciousness of the Jewish world? Obviously, there are
different orientations loosely connected on some level to the land of Israel
and to the sufferings especially since the advent of the modern era .  Many Jews for example are resigned to the
idea that modernity and a life in the current global culture signals the end to
the “legend” of Moshe, the Torah as a WAY OF LIFE, and, especially, the Temple
which many connect in an uninformed way with “primitive” sacrificial rites.  Progress in this view is intentionally or
unintentionally associated with developments in the predominant secular
institutions of our day.  Clearly, the
description in the book of Judges applies even in our time: ”A new GENERATION
arose after THEM [Joshua’s generation] THAT DID NOT KNOW HASHEM, nor the deeds
that He had performed for Israel.” The challenge for us in OUR GENERATION is to
maintain a CONSTRUCT OF REALITY and CONSCIOUSNESS that TRUTHFULLY represents a
present day CONTINUATION of the purpose for which Hashem established the nation
of Israel. At the present time however there exist MORE than one construct of
reality concerning the present and future existence of the nation. This is of
course NOT new.  A culture war of sorts
centering on what construct of reality will best serve the nation has been in
progress since BEFORE the Hasmonean struggle. The cultural conflict is the very
same and the primary TWO (perhaps three choices) are even the same.   SHABBAT SHALOM.

I am sorry Sam. But there are things I cannot explain because I get so angry. I think what I am really seeking is justice. I too had to ask ЗАЧЕМ these СОБЫТИЯ happened to me. Let me say this.
In the upper worlds reason is closer to our Lord, in this world (world of action), our world, it is emotion that is closer in a kind of divine reflection. It’s like a reflection in a mirror in which letters take a reverse order.  The jewish people, being highly reasonable, will then find this difficult to fathom.
Thats how I see it 

First, I wish you well Patrick. I hope that you find comfort from good people there for you. It is hard to find justice. I know of a man КТО should be in jail for things he has done to naive young girls, but at the time this happened, I was badly advised on the law and though my reaction would have been to visit him with a baseball bat in hand, I would only have made things worse. The bad advice set the situation – based on an issue of law rather than of appropriate measure within the law. No one took action, and as it is , I don’t know his name or where he is, but I learned a lesson from that experience. In terms of different people’s views on existence, it is better, I think, to learn for oneself than to pass judgement on others.  As for the Jewish people, there has been a long history of deep thought and reflection, and it is ongoing not only in the religious studies of Rabbis and other devotees, but in the broader world by scholars in many disciplines – Jews and non-Jews alike.
    I believe that the bottom line lies in the inherent aspiration for morality among people, going to the golden rule at core. It is there as part of man’s nature as a social being, and it is there in our reflections of the world. When someone crosses against that morality whether a Crusader in Jerusalem putting innocent people to death in a twisted belief system or a Nazi death camp, or a sick individual in Norway, it goes against the human aspiration.
   Religion has often been used to promote immoral actions through a distorted thinking such as burning people at the stake for trumped up charges of this and that..
     again, I wish you peace and comfort Patrick.
Sam

Thanks Sam. I am not looking for a physical justice. I know КТО did it and I know where they are. The issue is that of an imbalance of mercy and power where I live. In  America they put to death the innocent out of lust and let the murderer go free out of mercy. They have made themselves into gods, the idea of god that they worship is the god they become.
I personally fear the Lord terribly and could not  imagine having done nothing, speaking for my situation that is.
I am at my wits end though and I hope in the end I can say I did my best. I hope I die soon, I’m very tired.  Thats my saga. Thanks for the advice.  Peace to you Sam, and thanks for the КОНТАКТЫ.